Kicker bumper plate dilemma

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RooDog
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Re: Kicker bumper plate dilemma

#16

Post by RooDog »

nifty wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:17 pm Thanks again RooDog
I snaffled a couple of those ebay pics
BTW did your 68 originally have a foot clutch with that arm?
Ex Police bike?
Nifty
The '68 SH was from a wrecked & burned police bike. I scored only the engine. That is the correct arm, I ran it with a mousetrap.
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Re: Kicker bumper plate dilemma

#17

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

nifty wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:23 am No idea what the "2" signifies.
Nifty
An indented lone 2 is underneath a lot of BT trans cases as far back as 1937 models while many others have a lone 1 instead. I thought they may be inspector markings done at a foundry but some time ago on another site someone said they were a mould form number. However, I don’t really know what that means and he didn’t elaborate. Other cases have an indented 1E or 2E but thus far I have only seen those two combinations on cases cast July 49 and later. Some cases around 1976–early-77 models have a lone E.

Any other markings under your case?

You mentioned the case is 70–71 but what ID letter is on the front?
Eric
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Re: Kicker bumper plate dilemma

#18

Post by nifty »

Eric
Case supplementary ID is G30**, so maybe actually 71?
Nothing else underneath
Has a raised "D" on top
Case was originally a 3 & reverse
Nifty
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Re: Kicker bumper plate dilemma

#19

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Thanks. Unfortunately the lone raised D doesn’t help on this occasion. I’ve seen it on top of other cases that have G on the front but the raised D also appears on 34703 65 cases with B, F, K and M at the front.
A raised D is sometimes even found accompanied by one or more numeric characters (D3, D16 etc) but so far I’ve only seen these multiple markings for 75-later models.

G on the front could indicate 66, 70 or 71. But if 66, what happened to the bumper because there should have been one fitted as original and the same should apply to a 71 case when used for an FX.

My 61–71 H-D catalog doesn’t list a bumper or its screws for a 70–71 FL/FLH. It does however list a certain 3-speed and reverse transmission for 70 and a certain 3-speed and reverse trans housing that apparently ended with 70 models whereas certain 4-speeds continued beyond that. Therefore I’m wondering if the case may be 70? And if so, the bumper screw holes may not have been done by H-D.

But why is the starter crank at 12 o’clock when no bumper is installed? I’m not sure. If the case is 70 then originally it would have been E-start only so perhaps the abutment wasn’t machined the same as it would be if the case was to have a bumper (and kicker)?
Eric
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Re: Kicker bumper plate dilemma

#20

Post by nifty »

Eric
I just re-visited your data on trans numbers and found the G also for 66, somehow I missed that before.
My thinking at the time was total transmissions approx 3000 would point to 70 rather than 71 where I would expect a higher series of numbers, wasn't sure so went with 70-71.
Now that 66 is also a possibility, I'm stumped.

Not that it seems to make much difference with the Bumper question.
The screw hole centres are dead on .625 and holes of -36 bumper align perfectly
The location of both holes could be better, to get the bent end of bumper hard against ally where KG peg hits
But even if contact was perfect, the thickness of bumper is still too much

pic of 1974 FLH 4 speed case indicates at least some cases were drilled for absent kicker bumper and not machined for 3 & reverse
As one would expect for FX use
Nifty
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Andygears
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Re: Kicker bumper plate dilemma

#21

Post by Andygears »

Guessing again, something to ponder.

By 1970 HD had confidence in their electric start for big twins, having sold non-kickers for a few years. The odd thing about “this” case is the 3 speed & reverse so it was originally destined for 3 wheel use (sidecar or trike?). Was HD looking at a Tri-Glide by 1970?, possibly to replace the servicar which was becoming dated by then. And the tricycle configuration did not have room for a kicker. And the project was scrapped, parts reclaimed in the future, later drilling by transfer of holes from a bumper which didn’t work as expected and the case abandoned.

Pure fantasy unless somebody knows something authentic.

Andygears
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Re: Kicker bumper plate dilemma

#22

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Hard to say how additional ID was assigned. For 70 model trans cases G was one of at least two letters used and the same thing happened with 71s although the second letter was not the same. Apparently G was first used on trans cases for 66 and for that year they used at least four more. As for the sequence portion, I don’t know how the factory approached that. We know the info was recorded for future reference and some owners have had their additional ID confirmed in writing but that was for a complete machine. I don’t know if the factory would confirm ID on a lone part.

Anyway, in this instance I think I’d cancel 66 because all cases that year should have had a bumper fitted as original and it should have allowed the kicker to sit properly. And the same things would apply to a 71 case when used for an FX.

If bumper thickness is a problem even when contact is perfect it sounds like the case wasn’t originally machined to accept a bumper and that would make sense if the case is 70. But maybe whoever drilled the holes didn’t realise that at first and to make matters worse they got the locations wrong even though they got the centres correct. At some stage they may have noticed the gap but also realised the kicker still wouldn’t sit right with no gap so they removed the bumper.
Eric
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Re: Kicker bumper plate dilemma

#23

Post by nifty »

Thanks Eric
Yeah, as much as I want to know, now looks like probably never will. Quite possible this is the only case like this.
No point in further speculation.
I may make a very thin steel bumper, thinking .020", just to prevent "fretting" of the ally from peg sitting in same place & running vibes, but otherwise just assemble. In the modern parlance, it is what it is.
Thanks to all who tried to help
Nifty
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Re: Kicker bumper plate dilemma

#24

Post by RUBONE »

The late case may have a different location spec for the peg/plate relationship as all were originally equipped (and would be converted to if E-start only) with the folding type kicker arm and not a solid vertical type. Just a thought as I have zero parts from that era to compare and the last time I put a kicker kit on a transmission like that would have been no later than mid 1980 when I quit working for a dealership.
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Re: Kicker bumper plate dilemma

#25

Post by nifty »

RUBONE wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:12 pm The late case may have a different location spec for the peg/plate relationship as all were originally equipped (and would be converted to if E-start only) with the folding type kicker arm and not a solid vertical type. Just a thought as I have zero parts from that era to compare and the last time I put a kicker kit on a transmission like that would have been no later than mid 1980 when I quit working for a dealership.
Rubone
Yes, for 80 up trans, where the retainer plate does extra duty as kicker bumper, definitely.
On an 80up trans the early style kick arm leans back, I did such a conversion a few years ago, no problem with partial ratchet separation, just the lean. The owner knows my phone number and address, so I can only assume its still working.

Unconfirmed but above probably also true for the 78-79 trans with -78 bumper, which suggests the trans holes may have remained unchanged for the longer -78 bumper.

Fold out kicker introduced with equal length 2 into 1 header pipes and big muffler. possibly these bikes still had early spec -36 bumper.
I don't think the fold out kicker part number changed during production and the kicker gear part number didn't change.

I suspect MoCo fiddled with up-stop (bumper) position to get late fold out kicker away from later dual pipes with balance tube FX exhaust.(clearance issue when kicker folded)
None of which helps with the odd 70 ish case

Cheers
Nifty
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Re: Kicker bumper plate dilemma

#26

Post by nifty »

84 FXE pic illustrates kicker proximity to exhaust & air cleaner
Nifty
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